joey jojo

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Posts by joey jojo

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  81

  Roll Call for the benefit of Newbies and Lurkers. In One Sentence tell why you left the Org.

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  roll call for the benefit of newbies and lurkers.

  in one sentence tell why you left the org.

  not 2 sentences.

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  joey jojo

  The entire history of the WTBTS has consisted of presenting speculation as God-directed truth, of which total belief and obedience is expected, only to change it when it is proven wrong- while still claiming to be directed by God.
  
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  50

  How long is a generation?

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what splain does in his talk and chart illustration is make the leap that a generation can have two groups.

  and in this case the two groups span more than 108 years.

  but no where in scripture is there ever a notion that a generation has two groups.

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  joey jojo

  Its really simple.

  Jesus (allegedly) said that some of the people who were alive right then as he was speaking would STILL be alive to witness the events leading up to Jerusalem's destruction. There was no 'NEXT' or 'OVERLAPPING' group.

  Up until 1995, JW's preached that some people that were alive to witness the events of 1914 would STILL be alive to witness the destruction of this world at God's hand. There was no 'NEXT' or 'OVERLAPPING' group.

  I don't want to confuse the issue but another way to look at the stupidity of the change is this; My Grandfather passed away in 1987. I was alive while my Grandfather was alive and so our lives overlapped. He witnessed world war 2 but I didn't. According to the theory that the FDS is espousing, that makes me a part of the generation that saw world war 2, even though I wasn't around to witness it.

  Sound stupid?? - Yes it does.

  Using their theory in the other direction of time, this also makes my Grandfather a part of the 'facebook generation'- even though he passed away 20 years before it was launched, because my life and his 'overlapped'.

  I actually cant believe the FDS are getting away with this complete misinterpretation and twisting of a simple concept. They should just say they were wrong about 1914. But we know that will never happen.
  
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  13

  Accepting Your Shadow(Jungian)

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when looking inside one's self to find your authentic self requires a brutally honesty with yourself.

  the shadow side of ourseelves is where we stuff a lot of things we don't like about ourselves, stuff we have repressed, not all is bad stuff, some very good.

  understanding your shadow side and unrepressing things in it can restore balance to the psyche and make one more whole and more creative as the psyche becomes unstuck from denial and suppression of natural instincts.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg1cvp4u5sy.

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  joey jojo

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OufK0647p1U

  Here is a great song about it, with an explanation supplied. :)
  
  
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  26

  The laziness of JW parents....

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it struck me that the society has created a culture of lazy jw parenting.. rather than parents being there to guide and direct and help their children through all stages of life, the gb / society has become the "go-too" for everything.. if the child has an issue, there is a wt article for that.. does the child need help with something else?

  ah, there is a caleb and sophia cartoon for that.. what about that other topic?

  ah, there is a book for that.. so rather than being present parents, the average jw parent simply outsources their parenting to the organization!

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  joey jojo

  This is a subject close to my heart.

  I have witnessed JW parents do the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM they have to just so they can be called 'parents' and not have themselves reported to child welfare.

  My own Mother actively discouraged me from finishing senior high-school. Her quote: 'its all garbage, and its all going to end soon'. The year was 1986. Because I believed her, that one simple sentence set the trajectory of my working life.

  Less than 5 years later, after the damage had been done, she left the org, never to return. I realised she was using the org as an excuse to be a selfish parent and once her children were old enough, she was gone. There was no way she was driving her kids to after -school sports practise. School plays were out, because they were on a meeting night.....etc...etc...sigh.
  
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  18

  Is it ethical to have children?

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this was a news article recently in an australian newspaper that caught my eye.. the premise was that to have a child is to inflict an extra human being onto the world and also, to inflict the world (with all its problems) onto the child.. there is a lot to say about this but from jw point of view, i have always believed it to be incredibly hypocritical that jw's have children in 'this system'.

  all my life at the meeting i heard how little time we have left, how sick the world is, how i was probably going to be persecuted and end up in a jail cell for being a jw.

  why would anyone want to become parents in this situation, particularly if they are confident there is only 'a short time left'?.

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  joey jojo

  This was a news article recently in an Australian newspaper that caught my eye.

  The premise was that to have a child is to inflict an extra human being onto the world and also, to inflict the world (with all its problems) onto the child.

  There is a lot to say about this but from JW point of view, I have always believed it to be incredibly hypocritical that JW's have children in 'this system'.

  All my life at the meeting I heard how little time we have left, how sick the world is, how I was probably going to be persecuted and end up in a jail cell for being a JW. Why would anyone want to become parents in this situation, particularly if they are confident there is only 'a short time left'?

  All JW's talk about is how bad everything is- 'the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. They are taught to be 'no part of the world'. Surely bringing children into a world like this is being completely and utterly irresponsible if you are a JW that TRULY believes the things you are saying to householders.

  To me, this is another reason to wonder if the average JW even knows what they believe. As has been said numerous times, most are asleep and are merely going through the motions set in place by their parents. They walk around on weekends saying things to 'worldly people' that clearly, they don't believe themselves. Having children in this world is a joy to Witnesses and that, to me is baffling.
  
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  24

  The New JWdom - Vew of Older Publications? (and other related questions)

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i feel that there aren’t many of that type anymore, but there have to be some – mostly old-timers.

  how do they study?.

  when i was active, i collected all the old publications i could find.

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  joey jojo

  Havent been to a meeting for at least 10 yrs, so much of what I know I hear through family and friends and this website.

  I agree with what some of you guys are saying. It seems that the org. is playing it safe and is trying not to add to their enormous list of outrageous proclamations that never come true.

  Maybe they are happy to let the years sail by so that the upcoming younger ones forget all about the failure of the generation prophecy and all the other stuff.

  As someone once said here, all they do is print magazines and accept donations based on speculation about bible prophecies.
  
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  16

  Lunar Eclipses and 607/587 BCE as the date of Jerusalem´s Fall

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am doing a very extensive document, it is a work in progress, that details how to know, just using a list of eclipses in the 6th and 7th century bce, excel, and knowing how to read lunar eclipse graphs and maps, that jerusalem fell in 587 b.c.e., and not 607 b.c.e.

  as the watchtower states.currently it is in spanish, but i intend to translate it to english later.for those who speak spanish, here it is:.

  https://sites.google.com/site/laverdadtj2/los-eclipses-lunares-y-la-watchtower.

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  joey jojo

  Hi ILTTATT,

  I thought I’d write this up to help you with your research. Disclaimer: I am not a scholar but just a dude that has been interested in astronomy for 30 odd yrs. Its just a brief overview of basic, simplified astronomy to help, as you mentioned that your grasp of the motion of planets is not as strong as your understanding of eclipses. I hope it helps. So here we go…

  Observed from earth, the Sun travels through the sky, along a path above the Earths equator. The path that it follows in the sky is known as the celestial equator. The Moon follows the same path and so do the planets.

  Constellations of stars are in fixed positions in the sky and some occur along the path of the celestial equator. As the Sun travels through the sky during the year, it passes through some of these constellations. These constellations are the ones we know as the Zodiac- Aries, Pisces, Scorpio etc.

  Because the constellations of the zodiac lie along the celestial equator, the moon and planets also pass through them.

  As observed from Earth, the planets appear to move at different speeds through the night sky, along the celestial equator and through the zodiac constellations. For example, Saturn takes about 29 years to complete a ‘lap’ of the sky. Jupiter takes almost 12 years, as a comparison.

  To an astronomer, knowing the positions of SEVERAL planets on any given night is like marking a date on a calendar. The reason is that a particular arrangement of planets in the night sky may only have occurred in the same way ONCE in recorded history.

  I would think that pinpointing the positions of planets in the sky to determine any given year, or month, is far more compelling evidence than using lunar eclipses.

  To give a brief example, lets imagine tonight that you see Jupiter and Saturn close together in the constellation Scorpion. Without using any fancy astronomical instruments, even a Neo- Babylonian work experience kid could describe the relative positions of these planets in respect to a prominent star in Scorpio. This is position A.

  Fast-forward 29 years and Saturn has completed its ‘lap’ of the sky and is back in position A. Jupiter, having taken only 12 years to complete a ‘lap’ has now done 2.4 ‘laps’ and is nowhere near position A, in fact, it is on the opposite side of the sky. This example only takes 2 planets into account. There are still 3 other planets visible in the sky that are all changing positions at different rates to the others. In VAT 4956, it consistently describes Saturn as being ‘ahead of the Swallow’. The Swallow is apparently the constellation that corresponds to what we know as Pisces. But that’s all the information we need to pinpoint the year that Saturn was in this position. If it was 588, Saturn would be nowhere this position.

  There are downloadable star chart programs that allow you to view the night sky by simply entering any date.

  Interestingly, the 2nd article about 607 in the 2011 WT tries to cast doubt on VAT4956 based only on the Lunar observations. Like a magician using mis-direction, it asks us to focus only on the Lunar events and ignore the over-whelming planetary evidence. There are 2-4 Lunar eclipses in any given year, so they are quite common and some occur after the moon sets, and some aren’t visible because of cloud cover, so personally, they seem a little less reliable than planets that can be observed gradually changing position over weeks, months and years.
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  Great biblical history discussion with Richard Dawkins

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21noquktb8q.

  this may have been posted here at some stage but for anyone that missed it please enjoy..

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  joey jojo

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21NoQuKTB8Q

  This may have been posted here at some stage but for anyone that missed it please enjoy.
  
  
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  20

  My friend the 'Super-Dub.'

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i speak semi-regularly to an old friend of mine who i would describe as a super-dub.. he knows i am inactive but over the years i have peppered him with a lot of questions about the org.

  that i hoped would make him at least pause and think somewhat rationally about the reality of being a jw in this brave new- post gb 2.0 world.. we have discussed everything from the generation changes, to the u.n. , failed prophecy, flip flops, the reduction in size of the wt magazine, the closing/ consolidation of bethels including lay-offs, jw broadcasting, cart witnessing- etc, etc.. what do i mean by super-dub?

  he is a born-in, has missionary parents, he reg.

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  joey jojo

  @Steve2,

  I think I just like pushing his buttons.

  :-)
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  35

  One Question to ask any JW that will blow their end times out of the water

  by maccauk in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ask any jw this one question.

  are there any apostles from the 1st century still walking the earth alive today ?.

  100% will say there are no apostles from the 1st century alive today.

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  joey jojo

  I always thought it was just jw's that struggled to understand which period of time is ' the last days '.

  There are as many different theories as there are agendas for believing one or the other.

  Asserting the end times didn't occur in the first century is great for membership of modern adventist religions.